Societies worse off 'when they have God on their side'

Does exactly what it says on the tin. Some of the nonsense contained herein may be very loosely related to The Sisters of Mercy, but I wouldn't bet your PayPal account on it. In keeping with the internet's general theme nothing written here should be taken as Gospel: over three quarters of it is utter gibberish, and most of the forum's denizens haven't spoken to another human being face-to-face for decades. Don't worry your pretty little heads about it. Above all else, remember this: You don't have to stay forever. I will understand.
User avatar
boudicca
Sister Midnight
Posts: 7432
Joined: 15 Sep 2004, 16:15
Location: embrace the margin
Contact:

JAMES RAY wrote:
boudicca wrote:
Obviousman wrote: Whatever happens, just make sure you can tell us who stay at home exactly what happened :lol:
By the sounds of things, you might have to "contact" us on The Other Side...
fear not. the 4080peru gig will be an extention of the discussion
Marvellous.

(I'm wearing a bulletproof vest though, just in case... :innocent: )
There's a man with a mullet going mad with a mallet in Millets
User avatar
Obviousman
Outside the Simian Flock
Posts: 7102
Joined: 22 Aug 2004, 12:14
Location: Soon over Babaluma
Contact:

boudicca wrote:(I'm wearing a bulletproof vest though, just in case... :innocent: )
This unrational fear is a part of the discussion as well, indeed ;D
Styles are a lie.

My Facebook/My Flickr
User avatar
Planet Dave
Underneath the Rock
Posts: 5287
Joined: 22 Apr 2003, 23:51
Location: The North.

My catholic education (All Saints, Dukinfield, Manchester) was pretty evil. Nuns wielding truncheons put me right off religion. Each to their own and all that, or even do what thou wilt, just don't hit me if I can't accurately relay the finer points of Sundays sermon (that'll have been every week then). Or hit back. Bastichs. :evil:

I assume Mr Ray means the gigs gonna be transcendental. Excellent. I've just dug out my only JR disc - Third Generation. T'riffic. Techno, it's goth without the horror, the horror. :wink: :notworthy:
User avatar
eastmidswhizzkid
Faster Than The Light Of Speed
Posts: 8081
Joined: 24 Mar 2005, 00:01
Location: WhizzWorld
Contact:

CofE school? check (which makes me as godless as the Quiffmeister said)
scared of dying? as much as the next man,but nevertheless i prefer not to be hoodwinked into doing anything by rules i don't agree with, just to guarantee "life-everlasting" (which is technically impossible if you're dead,right?)
religion as a social problem? like mrsRJ said -a pain in the arse,no more.
"Well I was handsome and I was strong
And I knerw the words to every song
Did my singing please you?
No! the words you sang were wrong"

"SISTERS FOREVER, FOREVER SISTERS"
User avatar
boudicca
Sister Midnight
Posts: 7432
Joined: 15 Sep 2004, 16:15
Location: embrace the margin
Contact:

Planet Dave wrote:Nuns wielding truncheons put me right off religion.
Some people would pay good money for that, etc, etc... :innocent: :twisted: :wink:
There's a man with a mullet going mad with a mallet in Millets
User avatar
markfiend
goriller of form 3b
Posts: 20570
Joined: 11 Nov 2003, 10:55
Location: st custards
Contact:

andymackem wrote:Thanks for that. I'll try to avoid asking questions with literal answers.
OK, sorry, but I don't really know what you want me to say. Image
andymackem wrote: What practical difference does it make to the education they provide. Last time I checked, an act of worship was required by law in British schools. If your school is majority Sikh (eg the Heathlands School in Hounslow), should that act of worship be Christian?
Given the national curriculum is still binding on any school in the country, not a lot I suppose. Hmmm. Yeah, I concede that one, so I'll skip the rest about schools.
andymackem wrote:Is the incitement to religious hatred any different, morally, from the incitement to racial hatred laws which already exist? In some communities religion is a more relevant point of identity than race, no?
Well, the definition of what "religious hatred" is under this law is vague; there's a very real risk that valid criticism of religion could be threatened, with serious consequences for freedom of speech. Some people also seem to think that it's a new form of blasphemy law, providing blanket protection for all religions.
andymackem wrote:Controls on genetics, as I understand it, are not entirely confined to religious beliefs. In the case of IVF I'm unconvinced that in the face of global over-population allowing rich people to create their own children is a great idea. While I sympathise with childless couples, surely adoption is a more sensible alternative than creating extra people?
Hmm. Yes. I'll concede that too.
andymackem wrote:As for other genetic issues, I'd refer you to Huxley rather than waffle on indefinitely. Unfettered genetic engineering, especially led by sci-tech corporations, is unlikely to benefit the greater good in the way we might hope. Legislative regulation is the only (rather scant) defence we have against this. In principle, and without any reference to what's 'natural' or who's 'playing God', I'd support this.
Conceded. Bollocks that's my arguments (mostly) down the pan. Nice one! :lol:
andymackem wrote:I'm not sufficiently expert on the details to defend myself from your next devoted defence of the scientific community, but I'll look forward to it anyway :lol:
Odd that. I'm not a scientist. The closest I could come is a claim (perhaps) to be a "failed scientist" in that I dropped out of a chemistry degree course before I did my Visual Communications BA (poncy name for graphic design).

I've conceded all the points apart from the "religious hatred" law, so no "devoted defence" this time.
advanced, forthright, signifficant
User avatar
boudicca
Sister Midnight
Posts: 7432
Joined: 15 Sep 2004, 16:15
Location: embrace the margin
Contact:

Stop conceding things Mark! It's no fun! :P
There's a man with a mullet going mad with a mallet in Millets
User avatar
andymackem
Slight Overbomber
Posts: 1189
Joined: 17 Dec 2003, 10:11
Location: Darkest Durham

@ markfiend - wow! I doff my cap. I don't think I've ever seen anyone concede anything on an internet forum, under any circumstances. I feel slightly embarrassed now :oops: :lol:

On the religious hatred law I share your concerns for freedom of speech, but remind you that there is no statute actually giving us freedom of expression in the first place. One of the flaws of our unwritten constitution is that we are effectively legally entitled to bugger all. On the other hand, if they don't tell us we can't do it, it's assumed to be fair game (as I understand it).

In this specific instance our race laws already intrude upon our freedom of speech: if I genuinely find black people repulsive (for whatever reason) I'm forbidden from saying so. Probably justifiably, but unfettered freedom of speech is probably untenable in a functional society. Nine times out of ten social structures police this themselves: 'don't speak ill of the dead' is a simple example of this kind of social norm.

As for the 'devoted defence' bit, usually you're much better informed than me about scientific affairs (or better at hiding the gaps, I wouldn't know!) so I was half expecting a more detailed breakdown of legislation throwing out the test-tube baby with the lab water. And a cheap reference to devotion seemed to tie in the religious theme conveniently. The joys of rhetoric and all that.
Names are just a souvenir ...
Russian footie in the run-up to the World Cup - my latest E-book available from https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07DGJFF6G
User avatar
andymackem
Slight Overbomber
Posts: 1189
Joined: 17 Dec 2003, 10:11
Location: Darkest Durham

And, back to the original point, an interesting snippet from Scandinavia where perhaps historically countries haven't been as secular as we can get after all .....

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local ... 125276.ece
Names are just a souvenir ...
Russian footie in the run-up to the World Cup - my latest E-book available from https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07DGJFF6G
Jaimie1980
Gonzoid Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 489
Joined: 27 May 2005, 12:51
Location: Belfast

andymackem wrote:And, back to the original point, an interesting snippet from Scandinavia where perhaps historically countries haven't been as secular as we can get after all .....

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local ... 125276.ece
Surprising that Norway have that quota. Always considered it one of the least observant countries.
Post Reply