Riff Stealing

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centurionofprix
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(Inane by day.)

I heard Dio's Rainbow In The Dark on the radio the other day, and was struck by the similarity of the rhythm guitar to WYDSM. Very soon afterwards they played some goff tune that ripped off the lead riff to Black Planet. I figured there might be a something interesting in a thread about this sort of direct musical borrowing, either by the Sisters of others' tunes or the other way around.

Then there's Millennium by Killing Joke and Arms by Sisters. Floorshow has that Dead Souls (Joy Division) beat, which in Von's modernist style might be an intentional allusion to that song.

Though it might just be me going crazy, there seems to be an ultra-Sistersized manifestation of riffs from Derek And The Dominoes' Layla and Fleetwood Mac's Gold Dust Woman in Amphetamine Logic. It makes a kind of sense, given the lyrics.

Any others?
Last edited by centurionofprix on 12 Dec 2011, 18:28, edited 6 times in total.
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centurionofprix wrote:(Inane by day.)

I heard Dio's Rainbow In The Dark on the radio the other day, and was struck by the similarity of the rhythm guitar to WYDSM. Very soon afterwards they played some goff tune that ripped off the lead riff to Black Planet. I figured there might be a something interesting in a thread about this sort of direct musical borrowing, either by the Sisters of others' tunes or the other way around.

Then there's Millennium and Arms. Floorshow has that Dead Souls beat, which in Von's modernist style might be an intentional allusion to that song.

Though it might just be me going crazy, there seems to be an ultra-Sistersized mafinestation of riffs from Layla and Gold Dust Woman in Amphetamine Logic. It makes a kind of sense, given the lyrics.

Any others?
Can you clarify by listing the artists and songs in question, together?
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arms ~= killing joke: millennium (of which chris claims to have no knowledge)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JPqD2mLyJg

for the rest, google is your friend ;)

Dead Souls = joy division
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhEm4S-4v_U

Layla = derek & the dominoes (feat eric clapton)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WUdlaLWSVM

Gold Dust Woman = fleetwood mac
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygj7tawGiug
Last edited by Quiff Boy on 12 Dec 2011, 17:42, edited 1 time in total.
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centurionofprix
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Done, Machine Regime.
Quiff Boy wrote:arms ~= killing joke: millennium (of which chris claims to have no knowledge)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JPqD2mLyJg

for the rest, google is your friend ;)

Dead Souls = joy division
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhEm4S-4v_U

Layla = derek & the dominoes (feat eric clapton)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WUdlaLWSVM

Gold Dust Woman = fleetwood mac
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygj7tawGiug
And Rainbow In The Dark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmSt1oEIshE
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I have it on good authority that the Dio/WYDSM riff in question has been used in MANY songs specifically in the 80's
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The other way around with Fear Of The Dark by Iron Maiden, you can clearly hear that they borred some riffs from TOL on that song.
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Isn't Fix an MC5 rip-off?
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robertzombie wrote:Isn't Fix an MC5 rip-off?
oooh, really? which song? :o
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It's probably I Want You Right Now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6eXLKzhu4M

The riff, anyway. And the MC5 song was a Troggs cover.

I bet Lou Reed and John Cale took a good listen to Valentine when they did Venus In Furs.
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That's the one
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ah yeah... the' troggs original version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ALZxesjtkQ

just called 'i want you'

i think the girls' version is more likely to be based on mc5's version than the original one, given the fix-like mangling of the main riff that mc5 have done to it
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...and Spacemen 3's version. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m3YbPoyL-A

(Which sounds even more Fix-like, appropriately enough!)
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centurionofprix wrote: Floorshow has that Dead Souls (Joy Division) beat, which in Von's modernist style might be an intentional allusion to that song.
Really ? Those two have been in my top five all time tracks for the past twenty five years and I have never seen a connection between them, despite listening to them literally thousands of times. The good Doktor definitely seems to have been influenced by JD, though.
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I meant just the drumbeat. Once the snare kicks in on Floorshow, the drum rhythm is very similar to my ears, although the rest of the music has a different pace. On the other hand, the guitars to Phantom sound reminiscent of Dead Souls as well.

I think the allusion might have to do with the evocation of past spirits in Dead Souls, history leading to the "final floorshow" and the revelation of the nature of the "Western dream" depicted in Floorshow's wild club scenery.

(as well as in The Waste Land, maybe)
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Maybe easier to hear on a live version? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKe-lq8VZFo

New one to me though; I can hear the resemblance now that you point it out, but I can't say that I've ever noticed it before.
centurionofprix wrote:....Floorshow has that Dead Souls (Joy Division) beat, which in Von's modernist style might be an intentional allusion to that song.
Although all evidence is that the music to Floorshow was written by Marx/Adams.

Oh, and speaking of drums (and - in this case - DRUMS), lest we forget: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbrjRKB586s (this one at least is openly acknowledged).
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centurionofprix
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Yeah, and in closing Floodland, there's a bit of a thematic reference in those itty bitty drumbeats.

"If it keeps on rainin', levee's goin' to break,
If it keeps on rainin', levee's goin' to break,
When The Levee Breaks I'll have no place to stay.

Mean old levee taught me to weep and moan,
Mean old levee taught me to weep and moan,
Got what it takes to make a mountain man leave his home,
Oh, well, oh, well, oh, well.

Don't it make you feel bad
When you're tryin' to find your way home,
You don't know which way to go?
If you're goin' down South
They got no work to do,
If you're going NORTH to Chicago.

Cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good,
Now, cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good,
When the levee breaks, mama, you got to move.

All last night sat on the levee and moaned,
All last night sat on the levee and moaned,
Thinkin' about my baby and my happy home.
Going, going to Chicago.. Going to Chicago.. Sorry but I can't take you..
Going down.. going down now.. going down..."


Never noticed just how well the general perspective of that lyric works as a kind of movie epilogue to the alternating stygian (heh) depth, absolute power, and grace of the Flood metaphor that Eldritch builds on the album and on Rain From Heaven.

You're probably better informed than me regarding Floorshow. I don't have Alice and I couldn't find a picture of the record with the credits written out, but Sisterswiki and Wikipedia attribute the music to Marx, Adams and Eldritch.
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mh wrote:
centurionofprix wrote:....Floorshow has that Dead Souls (Joy Division) beat, which in Von's modernist style might be an intentional allusion to that song.
Although all evidence is that the music to Floorshow was written by Marx/Adams.
marx has told me that both eldritch and himself were big fans of joy division (and fwiw, also of the early banshees, especially john mcgeoch's guitar sound).
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Quiff Boy wrote:marx has told me that both eldritch and himself were big fans of [...] john mcgeoch's guitar sound
Well why wouldn't you be? ;)
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markfiend wrote:
Quiff Boy wrote:marx has told me that both eldritch and himself were big fans of [...] john mcgeoch's guitar sound
Well why wouldn't you be? ;)
i alway used to find it a bit too spiky for my tastes, but latterly (see what i did there? :lol:) i have a fresh appreciation for it.
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Quiff Boy wrote:marx has told me that both eldritch and himself were big fans of joy division (and fwiw, also of the early banshees, especially john mcgeoch's guitar sound).
So they probably took the early reviews along the lines of "JD copyists fronted by a baritone Bowie" as a compliment.
The Banshees' original guitarist (prior to the infamous mid-tour record shop giveaway), John McKay, seemed really inventive on their first two albums at the time, but his replacement McGeoch took it to a new level on "Kaleidoscope" (1980, where he added his part to backing tracks already written) and in particular the post-punk masterpiece "JuJu", which is presumably what Marx and :von: would have been listening to in the early 80s (I certainly was). Anyone unfamiliar with McGeoch or mid-period Banshees could do worse than start with this :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbXSiEXqG5Q
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mh wrote:Maybe easier to hear on a live version? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKe-lq8VZFo

New one to me though; I can hear the resemblance now that you point it out, but I can't say that I've ever noticed it before.
centurionofprix wrote:....Floorshow has that Dead Souls (Joy Division) beat, which in Von's modernist style might be an intentional allusion to that song.
Although all evidence is that the music to Floorshow was written by Marx/Adams.

Oh, and speaking of drums (and - in this case - DRUMS), lest we forget: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbrjRKB586s (this one at least is openly acknowledged).
And now i know how Summer would sounds like in a Studio Recording :lol: :lol:
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Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote: Anyone unfamiliar with McGeoch or mid-period Banshees could do worse than start with this :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbXSiEXqG5Q
I'm vaguely amused that you consider JuJu etc. to be "mid-period Banshees". is the 4th of 11 studio LPs really "mid-period"? Well maybe I suppose.

Personally I'd split the Banshees into three periods; pre-fat-Bob, with-fat-Bob, and post-fat-Bob.
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markfiend wrote:
Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote: Anyone unfamiliar with McGeoch or mid-period Banshees could do worse than start with this :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbXSiEXqG5Q
I'm vaguely amused that you consider JuJu etc. to be "mid-period Banshees". is the 4th of 11 studio LPs really "mid-period"? Well maybe I suppose.

Personally I'd split the Banshees into three periods; pre-fat-Bob, with-fat-Bob, and post-fat-Bob.
Bob was only on loan to the Banshees for one studio album though, IIRC, whereas McGeoch managed three. So :von: was not the first to hit on the idea of changing guitarist regularly to keep a band fresh - watch out, Ben and Chris !
Going back to JD, the most obvious link between the two bands (ie JD and TSOM) for those not familiar with the Mancunian Miserabilists (if that's not tautological) is that JD used to do a fairly faithful cover of Sister Ray live, a version of which can be found on the somehwat messy posthumous round-up album Still, which also features Dead Souls incidentally.
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markfiend wrote: Personally I'd split the Banshees into three periods; pre-fat-Bob, with-fat-Bob, and post-fat-Bob.
interesting periods :D
although he was not that fat yet
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