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Ben Gunn
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markfiend
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PostPost #51  Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I thought that the deal for SGWBM was that Eldritch sold the rights to the songs then, in '92 (or whenever), in order to finance the infamous white Mercedes.

I might be wrong though. I occasionally am.
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mh
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PostPost #52  Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Nope, pretty sure you're right on that one.
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Nikolas Vitus Lagartija
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PostPost #53  Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I have also always believed that the infamous Merc was financed by effectively allowing WEA to release the Girls' back catalogue, which did not form part of the original '84 deal but suited both parties : Our fearless leader! because he had **** all else to offer them, to get them off his back and give him some readies (for said automobile, for example), and WEA as they had a CD certain to sell thousands of copies with no nasty associated recording costs/risk over song quality etc.
I'm guessing that there were no lawyers involved in the band's dealings prior to the WEA deal, and that any monies due to those who played on/contributed in other ways to the pre-WEA MR's would have been a matter to be settled between the remaining member ( Our fearless leader! ) and the various ex-members, with an out-of-court ex gratia payment the best solution for both parties.
But the key phrase in all of this is "I'm guessing..." and as it's their money it's really none of my business.
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stufarq
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PostPost #54  Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

markfiend wrote:
I thought that the deal for SGWBM was that Eldritch sold the rights to the songs then, in '92 (or whenever), in order to finance the infamous white Mercedes.

I might be wrong though. I occasionally am.

That may be true but I remember reading (can't remember where) something where Von described his publishing deal at the time of the WEA contract. He implied (wrongly) that it's how all publishing deals work, saying something along the lines of "when you sign a publishing deal the publisher owns all the rights to the songs but it's the only way you make any real money in this business."

Of course, I could be making all of this up and his ability to get the sound recording (owned by the label) of Never Land removed from a Buffy episode suggests that he may, at some point, have secured ownership of his recordings; so maybe he got his publishing rights back too. And then sold them again. Will he never learn?
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Being645
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PostPost #55  Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I think, I've read that he got that Mercedes from the record company already in 1988 or something - for whatever reason - and he didn't pay for it.
But maybe I was only dreaming ...

Also I think it was a very good idea to release a compilation of the back catalogue
and afterwards a Greatest Hits collection ... in order to prepare fertile grounds for
the coming new album ... only, that didn't happen ... Wink...
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Mothra
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PostPost #56  Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Being645 wrote:
I think, I've read that he got that Mercedes from the record company already in 1988 or something - for whatever reason - and he didn't pay for it.
But maybe I was only dreaming ...

Also I think it was a very good idea to release a compilation of the back catalogue
and afterwards a Greatest Hits collection ... in order to prepare fertile grounds for
the coming new album ... only, that didn't happen ... Wink...


Greatest Hits VOLUME ONE I might add Laughing
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markfiend
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PostPost #57  Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

stufarq wrote:
...his ability to get the sound recording (owned by the label) of Never Land removed from a Buffy episode suggests that he may, at some point, have secured ownership of his recordings; so maybe he got his publishing rights back too. And then sold them again. Will he never learn?
Hm good point. And there's the fabled removal of a song from Judge Dredd...
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lazarus corporation
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PostPost #58  Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

markfiend wrote:
stufarq wrote:
...his ability to get the sound recording (owned by the label) of Never Land removed from a Buffy episode suggests that he may, at some point, have secured ownership of his recordings; so maybe he got his publishing rights back too. And then sold them again. Will he never learn?
Hm good point. And there's the fabled removal of a song from Judge Dredd...


Depends on which rights he sold to WEA.

WEA would probably now own the reproduction/distribution rights to all the old Sisters songs (so they can legitimately churn out CD after CD without paying Eldritch any more money), but Eldritch might not have sold them all the rights required to issue a synchronization license to the TV producers (required to use a song in a TV show or film in the US).
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stufarq
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PostPost #59  Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

lazarus corporation wrote:
markfiend wrote:
stufarq wrote:
...his ability to get the sound recording (owned by the label) of Never Land removed from a Buffy episode suggests that he may, at some point, have secured ownership of his recordings; so maybe he got his publishing rights back too. And then sold them again. Will he never learn?
Hm good point. And there's the fabled removal of a song from Judge Dredd...


Depends on which rights he sold to WEA.

WEA would probably now own the reproduction/distribution rights to all the old Sisters songs (so they can legitimately churn out CD after CD without paying Eldritch any more money), but Eldritch might not have sold them all the rights required to issue a synchronization license to the TV producers (required to use a song in a TV show or film in the US).

They would own them already. The record company owns the recording copyright because they paid for the recording and they would therefore be the ones issuing synchronisation licences. If it had been a pre-WEA song that would be different but they would almost certainly own Never Land unless he had his own studio and/or bankrolled the recording himself. The fact that the remasters were issued without Von's consent shows that either they still own them or (less likely) they sold them to him at some point and then he sold them back! (I've just contradicted my previous argument, haven't I? The sensible version is that Von never owned the recordings - but then how did he get the song removed from Buffy?)
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GC
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PostPost #60  Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

stufarq wrote:
lazarus corporation wrote:
markfiend wrote:
stufarq wrote:
...his ability to get the sound recording (owned by the label) of Never Land removed from a Buffy episode suggests that he may, at some point, have secured ownership of his recordings; so maybe he got his publishing rights back too. And then sold them again. Will he never learn?
Hm good point. And there's the fabled removal of a song from Judge Dredd...


Depends on which rights he sold to WEA.

WEA would probably now own the reproduction/distribution rights to all the old Sisters songs (so they can legitimately churn out CD after CD without paying Eldritch any more money), but Eldritch might not have sold them all the rights required to issue a synchronization license to the TV producers (required to use a song in a TV show or film in the US).

They would own them already. The record company owns the recording copyright because they paid for the recording and they would therefore be the ones issuing synchronisation licences. If it had been a pre-WEA song that would be different but they would almost certainly own Never Land unless he had his own studio and/or bankrolled the recording himself. The fact that the remasters were issued without Von's consent shows that either they still own them or (less likely) they sold them to him at some point and then he sold them back! (I've just contradicted my previous argument, haven't I? The sensible version is that Von never owned the recordings - but then how did he get the song removed from Buffy?)


Maybe he's trying to sound cool...and lying..
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stufarq
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PostPost #61  Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Gollum's Cock wrote:
stufarq wrote:
lazarus corporation wrote:
markfiend wrote:
stufarq wrote:
...his ability to get the sound recording (owned by the label) of Never Land removed from a Buffy episode suggests that he may, at some point, have secured ownership of his recordings; so maybe he got his publishing rights back too. And then sold them again. Will he never learn?
Hm good point. And there's the fabled removal of a song from Judge Dredd...


Depends on which rights he sold to WEA.

WEA would probably now own the reproduction/distribution rights to all the old Sisters songs (so they can legitimately churn out CD after CD without paying Eldritch any more money), but Eldritch might not have sold them all the rights required to issue a synchronization license to the TV producers (required to use a song in a TV show or film in the US).

They would own them already. The record company owns the recording copyright because they paid for the recording and they would therefore be the ones issuing synchronisation licences. If it had been a pre-WEA song that would be different but they would almost certainly own Never Land unless he had his own studio and/or bankrolled the recording himself. The fact that the remasters were issued without Von's consent shows that either they still own them or (less likely) they sold them to him at some point and then he sold them back! (I've just contradicted my previous argument, haven't I? The sensible version is that Von never owned the recordings - but then how did he get the song removed from Buffy?)


Maybe he's trying to sound cool...and lying..

It was definitely in the originally transmitted episode and it's definitely not on the DVD so someone had it removed. It's unlikely that it was used without permission and even less likely that WEA granted permission and then changed their minds. So either Von did manage to exert some influence or - oh God, I've just spotted the blindingly obvious solution! They only ever paid for use on the original transmission and not for DVD rights. Happens all the time cos it's too expensive. You get the song you really want for the broadcast, just so you got to use it once, but then bow to economics and get something cheaper for the DVD release. I should have realised that straight away instead of leading us up a bit of a blind alley. Sorry!
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Being645
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PostPost #62  Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Sounds very plausible, stufarq ... and hell, what an honour to see WEA sell the rights of use for The Sisters' songs so dearly ... Mr. GreenMr. Green ... Laughing ...
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Nikolas Vitus Lagartija
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PostPost #63  Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Came across this interesting exchange allegedly about Ben Gunn on this Crystal Palace fans' forum www.holmesdale.net/page.php?id=106&tid=138217&page=7. "Crystal Palace" does sound like a phrase from a m*****n lyric, so not surprising that there's a few goths on there.
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radiojamaica
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PostPost #64  Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

How in the world did you find that? Surprised
But hey, great stuff!
Ben was a skateboarder, cool.
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Quiff Boy
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PostPost #65  Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

wow, good find Very Happy

fwiw, i asked marx about ben (a few years ago now) and he said he was a quiet john peel-indie kid who loved the intellectual side of guitar playing, and hated the sex, drugs and rock & roll side of the sisters.

i gather he wasn't too comfortable as eldritch immersed himself in the sub-led zep rock & roll lizard king schtick...

it figures that he'd leave in about 83 when the band were getting more and more into that 'mode'.
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PostPost #66  Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Quiff Boy wrote:
he was a quiet john peel-indie kid who loved the intellectual side of guitar playing, and hated the sex, drugs and rock & roll side of the sisters.

some people don't know they're born... Rolling Eyes
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Bartek
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PostPost #67  Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

a contrary my dear, a contrary. there ought to be balance and as we know back in a day TSOM were on full r'n'r life style.
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