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von's musical ability...
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big man with a gun
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PostPost #1  Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:59 pm    Post subject: von's musical ability... Reply with quote Back to top

OK. Long time browser. First time poster.

I just wondered does anyone know how involved is Andrew musically on the records?(Obviously he just sings live).

For example, I always assumed that he did all of the doktor programming in the studio but someone on here mentioned that Dave Allen did it for FALAA. If so, then who did it for the earlier and later stuff and why did Allen have to do it instead of an actual band member? Did the guy who produced the Alice ep do the drum programming for that?

Also, for the songs where Eldritch writes the music (on guitar apparently) how come he is rarely credited playing guitar apart from VT. This applies to keyboard/synths too.

Sorry for the lenghty post but it's something that bugs me from time to time. Cheers.
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mh
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PostPost #2  Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Welcome. Very Happy

Von's musical ability? He's a quite good guitarist, but can't really play standing up. The Reptile House is all Von, aside from the bass which was Craig, of course. The Temple intro riff is him (none of the others could play it). Floodland is him.

He's played bass live with New Model Army too, so presumably he has some reasonable competence with that instrument too.

His drumming ability, on the other hand....
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big man with a gun
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PostPost #3  Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Cheers for that but do you know who does the drum programming on the records?
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PostPost #4  Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Lead guitar on all the big songs on Floodland are courtesy of Steinman's session musos. Eddie wotsisface...
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PostPost #5  Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Early drums were programmed Eldritch and Marx, and possibly Hussey, depending on which song you mean.

Andy used to prefer writing words over fully realised musical demos, hence all the FALAA era tracks with different lyrics where he was testing the water with Marx and Hussey's demos.

Latterly (afaik) the drums are all programmed by Andy.
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PostPost #6  Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I stand corrected by the man in the white coat. We are not worthy!

I'd guess that Von does most of the drum programming, and the reason why DA did FALAA (can we get some definite confirmation on that?) was because Von was just so smashed at the time. Just a guess.

Ben Gunn may or may not have done some in the past; he at least was responsible for the Doktor going berserk at one show.
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PostPost #7  Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Given that a lot of the songs on FALAA had been played live prior to recording I'd suggest that the drum patterns already existed in the Dok. I am guessing that DA's role was engineer, production etc, tweaking fx in the studio and suchlike, rather than actually WRITING songs and patterns...?
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PostPost #8  Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Sure but I read on another thread here called something like 'Dave allen 2010 talk' where the poster went to a public appearance by him in august last year where he was talking about his production career.
The poster remembered that Allen said he programmed the oberheim for the album.
Then again if the songs where already played live he must have literally followed instructions rather than actually coming up with the beats/rhythms himself.....

Also does anyone know if Andrew 'came up' with the heavy guitar (and synth) riff that Adam Pearson played on 'Under the Gun' (Obviously the part not on 'two worlds apart') or did Person write AND play it?
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PostPost #9  Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

big man with a gun wrote:
Sure but I read on another thread here called something like 'Dave allen 2010 talk' where the poster went to a public appearance by him in august last year where he was talking about his production career.
The poster remembered that Allen said he programmed the oberheim for the album.
Then again if the songs where already played live he must have literally followed instructions rather than actually coming up with the beats/rhythms himself.....

Also does anyone know if Andrew 'came up' with the heavy guitar (and synth) riff that Adam Pearson played on 'Under the Gun' (Obviously the part not on 'two worlds apart') or did Person write AND play it?


Corret me if I am wrong, but I read somewhere that he only tweaked the song and added the doctor on it since everything else was on the demo incl Terry Nuns vocals..
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PostPost #10  Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Nice thread,for some unknown reason i've always thought the Doctor is thoroughly Our fearless leader! 's creation,which appears almost true.
On the other hand it would be pretty strange to see him performing guitar riffs Very Happy ,not that he can't play and all that,just weird.
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PostPost #11  Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I was the one who attended Dave Allen's talk. He did say that he programmed the Doktor for the record (of course, the fact that these songs already existed in live versions and thus a drum track must already have existed did enter my mind!) I imagine, he simply programmed the Oberheim using instructions from the band, because the drum loops are practically identical to what we hear on the live recordings. Then again, it's important to remember that the record was recorded in 1984, when most of the F&L&A tracks were being played live for the first time. So perhaps it was a simultaneous effort?

Either way, Allen said he programmed the drums for the record, but that doesn't mean he "wrote" the patterns.
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PostPost #12  Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Quiff Boy wrote:
Lead guitar on all the big songs on Floodland are courtesy of Steinman's session musos. Eddie wotsisface...

Eddie Martinez. The rest was Sid McGinness. (There used to be a thread where I'd posted the identities of all the musos on Floodland after hours of painstaking research and working it out. Seems to have gone now cos nothing comes up in a search.)

big man with a gun wrote:
The poster remembered that Allen said he programmed the oberheim for the album.

Could just have been keyboards.
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big man with a gun
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PostPost #13  Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Oh no now I'm really confused! Did McGinness play just lead guitar on the other Floodland tracks or ALL the guitars?

I'm pretty sure Von said he played most of the guitars himself.

I'm wondering did he play ANY guitar on the album now!

I don't understand how someone who apparently writes songs on guitar doesn't actually perform on the albums themselves.

Fair enough If it's someone who can't play anything, they might 'hum' the guitar riffs but Eldritch does play guitar in addition to keyboards synths and Doktor programming unless I'm mistaken?
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PostPost #14  Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

stufarq wrote:
There used to be a thread where I'd posted the identities of all the musos on Floodland after hours of painstaking research and working it out. Seems to have gone now cos nothing comes up in a search.
This the fella? http://www.myheartland.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=511508#511508

If you can't find something via HL's own search, google frequently helps. I found that link via teh googls
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PostPost #15  Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

just saw that list. I wonder did Eldritch play at all on the album now. Or did they embellish what he played for them to perform?
As a non musician, I'm not sure how you can WRITE music (not lyrics obviously) without having some musical/technical ability....
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PostPost #16  Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

markfiend wrote:
stufarq wrote:
There used to be a thread where I'd posted the identities of all the musos on Floodland after hours of painstaking research and working it out. Seems to have gone now cos nothing comes up in a search.
This the fella? http://www.myheartland.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=511508#511508

If you can't find something via HL's own search, google frequently helps. I found that link via teh googls

That's the one. Ta muchly. Should have thought of Googling.

big man with a gun wrote:
just saw that list. I wonder did Eldritch play at all on the album now. Or did they embellish what he played for them to perform?
As a non musician, I'm not sure how you can WRITE music (not lyrics obviously) without having some musical/technical ability....

I reckon there are too many other musicians on there for Von to have needed to play anything. As far as we know he didn't play any guitars on FALAA and only on VT and a couple of early singles when no-one else could/was around.

And you don't have to play an instrument to write music - you just have to know what you want it to sound like. I write music but have only ever once written at an instrument.
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PostPost #17  Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Regarding Floodland, I recall Eldritch saying in some issue of UTR that the guitars were mixed lower than on the other records partly because his own guitar playing wasn't as steady as the previous guitarists'. This would imply that he played many of the guitar parts on that album.
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PostPost #18  Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

big man with a gun wrote:
just saw that list. I wonder did Eldritch play at all on the album now. Or did they embellish what he played for them to perform?
As a non musician, I'm not sure how you can WRITE music (not lyrics obviously) without having some musical/technical ability....

I reckon there are too many other musicians on there for Von to have needed to play anything. As far as we know he didn't play any guitars on FALAA and only on VT and a couple of early singles when no-one else could/was around.

And you don't have to play an instrument to write music - you just have to know what you want it to sound like. I write music but have only ever once written at an instrument.[/quote]

Sure, but I would imagine that if he CAN play guitars and keyboards then he would have at least played them to show the session players what to play.

Also it would be strange for him to buy expensive(certainly at the time) drum machines/samplers/sequencers only to let other people 'get their hands dirty' working with them so to speak....
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PostPost #19  Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

big man with a gun wrote:
Sure, but I would imagine that if he CAN play guitars and keyboards then he would have at least played them to show the session players what to play.

Maybe but that doesn't mean he actually played on the album. Why bring in so many other guitarists and keyboard players if he did it all himself?

big man with a gun wrote:
Also it would be strange for him to buy expensive(certainly at the time) drum machines/samplers/sequencers only to let other people 'get their hands dirty' working with them so to speak....

A lot of instruments for recording sessions are hired rather than bought. But Von would be quite happy to have the instruments and let others play them. He once said that he doesn't mind who does what as long as it gets done so he wouldn't care about playing with the equipment himself, especially if someone else could do it better.
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PostPost #20  Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I suppose the lead lines were played by session guitarists... being able to play guitar and doing solos like the Corrosion one are different things. I could see (imagine) Von playing the guitar on Dominion, Lucretia, Flood... the basic Rhythm lines.
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PostPost #21  Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

afaik von played all tracks 'cept the two big hits TC and Dom for which Steinway etc brought in their own people

but you knew that already innit
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PostPost #22  Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Steinway is a piano Wink
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PostPost #23  Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

markfiend wrote:
Steinway is a piano Wink
Hence why he brought in others to play guitars Laughing
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PostPost #24  Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

markfiend wrote:
Steinway is a piano Wink


twas a joke 1959 and all that

see also: http://www.civilliberty.org.uk/newsdetail.php?newsid=1288 which was a joke on mistery as opposed to mystery solved.

anyway, as you were. i'm off Our fearless leader!
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PostPost #25  Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

paint it black wrote:
twas a joke 1959 and all that
Embarassed sorry
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