This might be due to speaking English as a foreign language, but what's wrong with "lipstick on my cigarette" anyway? Assuming (fairly) that it's not his own, which would go into a dodgier territory. I think it's a beautiful image, especially in the thematic context of the lyrics.
(By the way, I don't think this particular line is from Eliot? The rhythm and tone of the window-pane part does seem to recall Prufrock though.)
Floodland XXV
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centurionofprix
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Last edited by centurionofprix on 03 Jan 2013, 15:21, edited 3 times in total.
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Quiff Boy
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i've always suspected this to be the case.bangles wrote:One final note on "Husseyisms," particularly the lipstick on my cigarette' variety. As these come from FALAA, is there an option for some revisionist history rewriting that these were learned while sitting atright hand?!
and
^ wot he saidbangles wrote:Presumably he was writing 'Garden of Delight' with
learned while hanging around with eldritch, attempted while writing songs that eldritch rejected, and then carried on ad-infinitum once he realised they worked for mish fans
fwiw, i've always liked the imagery that "lipstick on my cigarette" invokes... that of sharing a cigarette with a female companion, which in the context of 9w9 i took to be eldritch reminiscing about a past liaison.
What’s the difference between a buffalo and a bison?
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markfiend
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"Lipstick on my cigarette" does have certain... other implications too.
Bear in mind the line from Zodiac Mindwarp's Prime Mover: "Your lipstick flickers round my lightning rod"...
Bear in mind the line from Zodiac Mindwarp's Prime Mover: "Your lipstick flickers round my lightning rod"...
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell
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Quiff Boy
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aye, good pointmarkfiend wrote:"Lipstick on my cigarette" does have certain... other implications too.
Bear in mind the line from Zodiac Mindwarp's Prime Mover: "Your lipstick flickers round my lightning rod"...
What’s the difference between a buffalo and a bison?
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sultan2075
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But I don't think Von meant it that way. I agree with centurionofprix and QB. I think it's a rather beautiful image, actually, and ditto for the recycling of it in altered form in Driven. In fact, lyrically I think Nine While Nine and Driven Like the Snow are among his best works.Quiff Boy wrote:aye, good pointmarkfiend wrote:"Lipstick on my cigarette" does have certain... other implications too.
Bear in mind the line from Zodiac Mindwarp's Prime Mover: "Your lipstick flickers round my lightning rod"...
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The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
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Nikolas Vitus Lagartija
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Leaving aside the whole Zodiac Mindwarp interpretation, I just felt this was typical of the somewhat laboured imagery on Floodland which matched the lacklustre musical content. The whole water thing seemed rather trite, too, and had been better done on Marian for example. For me, was on better lyrical form on both FALAA and VT than on Floodland, but from the answers here so far it's plain to see that this is a minority view. Maybe I should give it another few thousand plays to try to unlock the hidden delights that many here seem able to enjoy.
was on better lyrical form on both FALAA and VT than on Floodland, but from the answers here so far it's plain to see that this is a minority view. Maybe I should give it another few thousand plays to try to unlock the hidden delights that many here seem able to enjoy.i wrote that, and someone even agree with me on this: mix of lyrics (level, quality) from VT and music from Floodland, would make one of the best album, and for sure the best signed as TSOM.
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Being645
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In a way, I have to agree with you about the "lipstick on my cigarettes" line ...Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:Leaving aside the whole Zodiac Mindwarp interpretation, I just felt this was typical of the somewhat laboured imagery on Floodland which matched the lacklustre musical content. The whole water thing seemed rather trite, too, and had been better done on Marian for example. For me,
It was the one line in Nine While Nine which always made me wonder, whether
were ever able to see things the way I do. By now, I'm sure he was not. Too deeply stuck in certain conventions, I'll never ever comply with.
However, repeating this line in Driven Like The Snow filled part of the gap. So IMO, Floodland was a good step forward.
And as far as and where to it reaches, I find it perfectly done in expression, musically, lyrically and in the combination of both.
Who else did ever before elaborate on what you call "the (laboured and lacklustre) water thing" so consistently?
Seems to me you actually drowned on "Marian" ... and still, after such a long time ...
... if so, I should be sorry to note ... ... but hell .... 
...Certain hidden delights cannot be unlocked by a billion tries. In this world, there is no guarantee as much as there is
no escape. Insofar, you might perhaps be far better off, where you are now ... unhit by whatever deceptive delights ...
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bangles
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Say it ain't so!? When there's so little recorded music to listen to - it's nice to have to disagree with the received wisdom. It's always good to find a different perspective that drives you back to the album with fresh ears. That's why I was so curious about the Emperors New Clothes remark... I really enjoyed re listening to Floodland to catch the points you were making. More of it...Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:Leaving aside the whole Zodiac Mindwarp interpretation, I just felt this was typical of the somewhat laboured imagery on Floodland which matched the lacklustre musical content. The whole water thing seemed rather trite, too, and had been better done on Marian for example. For me,
Asperum Aestimate Fimi Aliquid Hodie
That is pretty spooky right there - you have described my exact Sisters experience virtually word for word, even down to getting Floodland for Xmas 1987Spiggy's hat wrote:I only got into the Sisters in late 84 & so within 6 months it was all over. Throughout 85 I bought the back catalogue & numerous bootlegs & bought the Sisterhood offerings the following year & also the m*****n releases.
TBH, I thought the Sisterhood stuff was poor compared to the pre 85 output. That said I was pretty excited when the news filtered out the following year, about a return of the Sisters name & I looked forward to seeing them (whoever 'them' may consist of) live
I bought the cassette single of TC on release & my brother bought me Floodland for Christmas 87. From my earliest plays, the 3 singles & Flood II were the standout tracks & that hasn't' really changed in the 25 years that have passed. Torch/Colours/Floodland/Neverland/Driven just sounded like lazy, plodding synth versions of the Reptile House but as others have said earlier in the thread..........it's all about opinions isn't' it?
I remember like it was yesterday spending the whole of Xmas morning playing the vinyl and pouring over the lyric sheet (I had the number limited edition sleeve)
Unfortunately I will have to align myself to the 80s goth gang rather than the direction Von took the Sisters over the second half of their life. I just couldn't join him on a journey that made a band that released Reptile House sound like Utah Saints.
To this day I still occasionally day dream about what might have been. True it would't have signalled musical progression, but if you cherry pick the best tracks from the early m*****n, Ghost Dance and early Von solo demo's think what the Sisters could have gone on to be. If that is your cup of tea.
May be I should move on. It was 25 years ago!