The Sisters and politics today

THE place for your Sisters-related comments, questions and snippets of Sisters information. For those who do not know, The Sisters of Mercy are a rock'n'roll band. And a pop band. And an industrial groove machine. Or so they say. They make records. Lots of records, apparently. But not in your galaxy. They play concerts. Lots of concerts, actually. But you still cannot see them. So what's it all about, Alfie? This is one of the few tightly-moderated forums on Heartland, so please keep on-topic. All off-topic posts will either be moved or deleted. Chairman Bux is the editor and the editor's decision is final. Danke.
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XidiouX
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Now here is a potentially difficult and controversial topic and so I'm going to try to tread carefully here whilst making the necessary points and asking the necessary questions.

The Sisters of Mercy have always been a left-wing institution. Eldritch did, after all, try 'to tell her about Marx and Engels' on their most recent(!) album but it's a political allegiance that, arguably, goes back to their very first single.

However, it's been nearly 30 years since Vision Thing. No matter how justified has been the lack of recorded output from the band, it's nevertheless been a terrible shame that a consequence of this is that we've been deprived of 'set-in-stone' Sisters commentary, in the form of definitive, released lyrics, on this very interesting period of time.

That said, during this time, Eldritch has made his views public on various matters though other channels, e.g. interviews, but only in a fragmentary way. Furthermore, over the past, say, 5 years, things have, to say the least, transformed in complex ways and also intensified.

As a result, I'm not entirely sure what Eldritch's views might be on contemporary issues such as:

- Climate change, Greta and Extinction Rebellion.
- Free speech on the internet
- Transsexuality
- Brexit (we can imagine him as Remainer, but what's his current view on the best way forward?)
- Identity politics and intersectionality
- Safe spaces, trigger warnings etc.
- The political polarisation of the West
- Being 'woke'
- The 'Intellectual Dark Web'
- Psychology, sociology and social media

and probably few other things that will occur to me after I've sent this.
Last edited by XidiouX on 27 Oct 2019, 15:11, edited 11 times in total.
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Swinnow
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If the press could do a proper interview we might find out, but it is chicken and egg, as there is little to interest them in doing an interview. So instead we get Von playing the usual games with the equivalent of fanzines and student radio.

Whereas with (local rivals ;) ) NMA we know their view and standing due to on stage and electronic communication with fans/customers/people.

Clarity or Smoke & Mirrors - we know the answer.
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Bartek
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I'd love to talk about this, but last time I've tried it ended up calling me at least having sympathy or even being sympathizer of Nazi and far-right.

So, I just point out that I most recent interview he replayed: TSOM is, was and always will be left-wing band (pretty much in these words); they all - AE, BC, RD, CC - were for stay in all that "Brexit" shenanigans.

And it's true, if there was any well prepared journalist, we might get answers for all that questions.
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Pista
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Bartek wrote:I'd love to talk about this, but last time I've tried it ended up calling me at least having sympathy or even being sympathizer of Nazi and far-right.
I think that may have been a bit of a misunderstanding. IIRC the concern was with GLOSSA & not you.
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I was a bit nervous when I saw that pic of someone who looked disturbingly like him with Tommy Robinson, but in recent interviews he has at least expressed outrage at Donald Trump's bigotry and reaffirmed the Sisters' status as a left-wing band.

I actually find it not surprising at all that Eldritch is now finally writing new songs, given that this really feels like his time to shine. I'm only 22, and American obviously, so I wasn't around in the '80s when Eldritch's politics were most directly relevant, but I still got into the Sisters because their sound, lyrics and attitude resonated greatly with the current times. I don't know if y'all have noticed, but this last decade we've really been bringing the '80s back into fashion, and that's not just out of nostalgia. Reagan and Thatcher's horrible deformed children are all grown up and running our respective countries, so s**t from the '80s sounds like, "well, yeah, I feel what you're saying there."

Also, he may very well be very political and telling us all about his views in the last two songs, it's just that there's literally no way for us to know because like honestly who can make out those lyrics?

"SHOW ME

smsmsnaaaation"

(still sounds cool tho)
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markfiend
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I can't see :von: being at all enamoured with the Intellectual Dark Web. Any group using the word "Intellectual" unironically, clearly isn't.
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markfiend wrote:I can't see :von: being at all enamoured with the Intellectual Dark Web. Any group using the word "Intellectual" unironically, clearly isn't.
Didn't know there was an intellectual dark web. What is it? Extreme academic porn and bomb-making? :wink: Vision Thing it has to be said was one of the most astute and politically prophetic albums of our times. A kind of Sisters version of Watchmen.
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iesus
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abridged wrote:
markfiend wrote:I can't see :von: being at all enamoured with the Intellectual Dark Web. Any group using the word "Intellectual" unironically, clearly isn't.
Didn't know there was an intellectual dark web. What is it? Extreme academic porn and bomb-making? :wink: Vision Thing it has to be said was one of the most astute and politically prophetic albums of our times. A kind of Sisters version of Watchmen.
From a quick search seems something worse, alt-right neoliberals :urff:
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Jordan Peterson, a man who thinks an all-beef diet is a good idea. Carl 'Sargon of Akkad' Benjamin. Alleged rapist Michael Shermer. Ben Shapiro. And other similar luminaries.
iesus wrote:From a quick search seems something worse, alt-right neoliberals :urff:
Yes exactly.
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Pista wrote:
Bartek wrote:I'd love to talk about this, but last time I've tried it ended up calling me at least having sympathy or even being sympathizer of Nazi and far-right.
I think that may have been a bit of a misunderstanding. IIRC the concern was with GLOSSA & not you.
yep.
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Swinnow
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I think the word 'dark' would be enough to make him take a left turn.
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Planet Dave
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Hmm, sod Von, what do you think of all these topics you mention XidiouX? Interesting topics most worthy of a heated debate or two, but if this thread is just gonna be a 'I think what Von meant to say was....' kinda thread then I'll steer clear and leave you to it.
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XidiouX
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Planet Dave: What do I think about these topics? Sigh...I think it's all a very sad state of affairs. We're better than this, or at least we should be and can be. How the hell did this happen, when we seemed to be on the cusp of purging trivial differences and taking our next steps toward humanity's great and distant future, we're now more divided than ever? Depeche Mode's 'Going Backwards' nails it for me.

That's my two cents for what they're worth. It would be interesting, though, to try to extrapolate from what we know about Eldritch's politics, and bearing in mind his general consistency, to imagine what the implications of his world-view might be here. I've given my view, only because you asked, but that's not really what I want to discuss, at least not here.
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Planet Dave
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Your two cents are worth as much as Von's, that's my main point. He says as much in the GPS interview post 911, paraphrasing but along the lines of 'not sure why my opinion would be any more relevant than yours, but seeing as you asked...'.

It would certainly be an interesting read if someone was to sit him down and ask his opinion on some of these topics. I guess that's the next step.

My world view remains 'why can't we all just get along?'. Sort that, and the long list of current hot topics dissolves into irrelevance.
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Quiff Boy wrote:
Pista wrote:
Bartek wrote:I'd love to talk about this, but last time I've tried it ended up calling me at least having sympathy or even being sympathizer of Nazi and far-right.
I think that may have been a bit of a misunderstanding. IIRC the concern was with GLOSSA & not you.
yep.
So I guess I got this all wrong.

Nevertheless, far-right and far-left give me the same cold shiver. Now I'm gonna poke few eyes: both far-right and far-left are equal to themselve, one side is worth another.

And it makes me sick to see that we're letting ourselve divide so deep. It's not gonna end well for everyone.
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Swinnow
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Well said Bartek.
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Chaotican
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The far right and the far left are not equal.

One is tedious, judgmental, annoying, self-congratulatory and deluded.

The other wants to kill people to maintain their dwindling power.

At heart, however, it’s all just theater. Extremist views are highlighted to inflame the “other side� in an effort to keep our interest. To keep us consuming, mostly the news that further inflames us. And to keep us angry about s**t rather than see reality.

The issues you’ve brought up are interesting and an honest exploration of them could help us all discover some deeper truths. Except that is no one’s goal...
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That works fine only and only if you believe in black and white world, or zero-one world (to not sound, in any definitione, insensitive). That was about that "radical centrism".
That's that kind of tribal thinking what is ground of problem on this matter.
I know that evil should be named and shamed and I suport that, but when both-side are willing to use direct action methods they are equals, to me. Teddy Bear.

I defined, at this point, my political views, it's on the same side as my heart - center-left, with space for my own thoughts.
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Planet Dave
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Chaotican wrote:At heart, however, it’s all just theater. Extremist views are highlighted to inflame the “other side� in an effort to keep our interest. To keep us consuming, mostly the news that further inflames us. And to keep us angry about s**t rather than see reality.
Exactly this. Sad that it's working a treat.
Bartek
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Planet Dave wrote:
Chaotican wrote:At heart, however, it’s all just theater. Extremist views are highlighted to inflame the “other side� in an effort to keep our interest. To keep us consuming, mostly the news that further inflames us. And to keep us angry about s**t rather than see reality.
Exactly this. Sad that it's working a treat.
Well said.
And also: in the land of the blind ...
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Planet Dave
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Bartek wrote:
Planet Dave wrote:
Chaotican wrote:At heart, however, it’s all just theater. Extremist views are highlighted to inflame the “other side� in an effort to keep our interest. To keep us consuming, mostly the news that further inflames us. And to keep us angry about s**t rather than see reality.
Exactly this. Sad that it's working a treat.
Well said.
And also: in the land of the blind ...
Aye, it's been this way for a 'good while' (centuries), certainly was in 1987 or whenever he wrote that. It's just so much easier to perpetuate the BS in these days of everyone being attached to their phone-computers like life-support machines.
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Swinnow
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Too right lad. The modern mobile phone culture should be enhancing communication between all of us but instead is building echo chambers of group think that extremists can build on.

Looks like we, the UK, got ourselves an election incoming.
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Planet Dave
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Swinnow wrote:Looks like we, the UK, got ourselves an election incoming.
And aren't we just spoilt for choice :?

That said, and I'm perfectly happy to go 'a bit extremist' with this opinion, but anyone taking half a look at BJs resume (god knows how to add the correct accent to that e) and thinking 'yes I wish to vote for him, seems like his heart's in the right place' really ought to be taken outside and shot.

I'm still keen on Eric's idea, namely everyone go to their banks and withdraw all their money on the same day. Then take it from there.
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Chaotican
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Planet Dave wrote:quote="Bartek"]
Planet Dave wrote:It's just so much easier to perpetuate the BS in these days of everyone being attached to their phone-computers like life-support machines.
Is it, though? Well, yes, but I think that is our collective choice. Our “enemies� are more accessible than ever. We could inform ourselves of the humanity and earnestness behind an opposing view without extending ourselves in the least.

Instead, we choose our echo chambers and allegiances to the people who validate us.

The biggest impact of technology is that it has allowed marketing experts to exploit human nature. We’re all so sure we’re right and they’re wrong and immoral that we refuse to question ourselves at all. To veer from our crafted thought trajectory feels like a betrayal of our artificial tribe.

We could use technology to break free and to understand each other and our actual challenges. But we won’t and sometimes I can’t even tell what’s real and what is BS anymore, myself.
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