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This Corrosion
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dead stars
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PostPost #1  Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:07 pm    Post subject: This Corrosion Reply with quote Back to top

Ok, sorry if this has been asked 1000 times. (I couldn't find a thread for "This Corrosion" so sorry if there is one, but I couldn't find it.)

Being a newbie to Tolkien and just reading "The Fellowship of the Ring" I can't help but wondering if "Gimme the Ring" and "hey hey now now" has anything to do with Tolkien at all.
I was perplexed to read "hey now now" (or similar enough to hey hey now now) in the beginning of some hobbit songs.

You can also call me a twit if you wish. I bet Tolkien has a lot more importance in British culture than it has in mine so it could have been there all along and I never established the connection.
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PostPost #2  Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I always saw the ring as the Papal Ring (kissed and toll'd). The Sisters of Mercy being a catholic sect and all.

Can't add much to the Tolkien thread, except maybe that Von like Zepplin and they liked Tolkien.
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lazarus corporation
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PostPost #3  Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I always thought the ring referenced the Wagnerian bombast of the song (a la Wagner's Ring Cycle etc) especially since it appears immediately after the operatic introduction.

The toll'd bit kinda references the 'ring' of a bell (as in 'for whom the bell...'), and then again 'gimme the ring' is a reference to marriage (as in wedding ring, kiss the bride, and the bells toll)
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lazarus corporation
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PostPost #4  Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

and as for 'hey now hey now now' - well it's a damn sight better than the 'hey nonny nonny' lyrics of the demo version.
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PostPost #5  Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Kissing the ring always made me think of...

A mafia don, or something.

Rolling Eyes
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PostPost #6  Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Wake, wake for you my precious Wink

i agree D.S, possibly slightly influenced by the lyrics of the Smiths too It wasn't me...
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PostPost #7  Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Von wrote:
"It's my war cry," he says warmly. "Despite the title, it's actually a
constructive song because nearly all of it should be thought of in quotation
marks. It would be too confusing to print them all, Basically it's a very
poor form of argument - putting words into someone else's mouth and then
explaining how stupid they are. It is, of course, directed at somebody and
it doesn't take a genius to work out who, although it'll probably take the
person concerned some considerable time. I find it embarrassing watching
people humiliate themselves for their absurd idea of rock'n'roll."

That sums it up pretty well.

Quote:
This Corrosion

Gimme the Ring, kissed and toll'd
Gimme something that I missed (Gimme the ring)
A hand to hold, wild and what it seems(Gimme the ring)
Kill the king, when love is the law,
And the we'll turn round... (Gimme the ring)
Gimme dream child
And do you hear me call? (Gimme the ring)
On the loan and on the level
...still on the floor (Gimme the ring)
Sing dream child
And do you hear at all?

CHORUS
(Sing)
(Sing)
Hey now, hey now now, sing This Corrosion to me
Hey now, hey now now, sing This Corrosion to me
Hey now, hey now now, sing This Corrosion to me
Hey now, hey now now, sing...

Gimme siren, child and do you hear me?
Gimme siren, child, and do you hear me call?
Sing, child, of right and wrong
Gimme things that don't last long
Gimme siren, child, and do you hear me call?

CHORUS

On daze, like this
In times like these
I feel an animal deep inside
Heel to haunch on bended knees
Living on if and if I tried,
Somebody send me... please...
Dream wars and a ticket to seem
Giving out and in
Selling the don't belong
Well, what do you say
D'you have a word for Giving Away?
Got a song for me?
CHORUS

I got nothing to say I ain't said before
I bled all I can, I won't bleed no more
I don't need no one to understand
Why the blood run hold
The hired hand
On heart
Hand of God
Floodland and Driven Apart
Run cold
Turn
Cold
Burn
Like a healing hand
Like a healing hand
Like a healing hand
Like a healing hand
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paint it black
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PostPost #8  Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
I got nothing to say I ain't said before
I bled all I can, I won't bleed no more
I don't need no one to understand
Why the blood run hold
The hired hand
On heart
Hand of God
Floodland and Driven Apart
Run cold
Turn
Cold
Burn
Like a healing hand
Like a healing hand
Like a healing hand
Like a healing hand


it's been said before by various people, mainly me: note the "E"

this charming man indeed Our fearless leader!
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Dan
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PostPost #9  Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The sheet music has it as 'Hold the hired hand on heart', as well as quotation marks around "we'll turn round" & "hand of god", "floodland" and "driven apart" & Living on "if" and "if I tried", plus it spells toll'd as told.
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PostPost #10  Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Dan wrote:
The sheet music has it as 'Hold the hired hand on heart', as well as quotation marks around "we'll turn round" & "hand of god", "floodland" and "driven apart" & Living on "if" and "if I tried", plus it spells toll'd as told.


The sheet music? Where? Surprised
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PostPost #11  Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Motz wrote:
Dan wrote:
The sheet music has it as 'Hold the hired hand on heart', as well as quotation marks around "we'll turn round" & "hand of god", "floodland" and "driven apart" & Living on "if" and "if I tried", plus it spells toll'd as told.


The sheet music? Where? Surprised


The sheet music was on sale in Virgin etc back in the late 80s. A4 size, folding out to 3 times that. Cover art the same as the single, if memory serves me right.
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aims
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PostPost #12  Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Don't happen to know off hand where there might still be a copy available do you? That would be like the Holy Grail of my guitar gear Razz
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dead stars
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PostPost #13  Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The song from "The Fellowship of the Ring" I was particularly referring is this:

Hey! Now! Come hoy now! Whither do you wander?
Up, down, near or far, here, there or yonder?
Sharp-hears, Wise-nose, Swish-tail and Bumpkin,
white-socks my little lad, and old Fatty Lumpkin!


I'm in no way trying to say "This Corrosion" has anything to do with this rhyme Very Happy but... you know it takes reading something when you are very young, or even in childhood, to leave a mark forever.
That's what I mean. No more.

The Ring is a concept of German (?) folklore, so... Subconcious influences. No one is immune.
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PostPost #14  Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Motz wrote:
Don't happen to know off hand where there might still be a copy available do you? That would be like the Holy Grail of my guitar gear Razz


No idea. If it was anything like every other piece of sheet music I've seen, it would be a very badly transcribed rough approximation of something vaguely resembling the original.

You're far better off with one of those guitar tab websites - at least that way you don't pay money for something which sounds almost but not entirely unlike the tab you're after.
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PostPost #15  Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Sharp-hears,Wise-nose,Swish-tail and Bumpkin

new pet names for '85 era Girls? Laughing
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PostPost #16  Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

lazarus corporation wrote:
You're far better off with one of those guitar tab websites - at least that way you don't pay money for something which sounds almost but not entirely unlike the tab you're after.


Gilles Velay's gothic tab archive is actually pretty good, but some of the songs are missing and others are somewhat lacking in the more complicated areas. That and I'm a musically illiterate bastard and would rather see rhythm markings on the stave, rather than working out how long to hold the chords on by the arbitrary number of "-"s between notes Razz
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PostPost #17  Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I've been curiuos to see a topic on this song as well. A thought that I'd always had about the song was that much of the first three verses refered to lyrical arguments from before the band broke up.

For instance, Wayne is arguing for the inclusion of his lyrics in the second album, and Andrew is negotiating for his own.

Quote:

Gimme the Ring, kissed and toll'd
Gimme something that I missed
A hand to hold, wild and what it seems
Kill the king, when love is the law,
And the we'll turn round...
Gimme dream child
And do you hear me call?
On the loan and on the level
...still on the floor
Sing dream child
And do you hear at all?


These lyrics could then be looked at as a conversation, in which each phrase is reffering to a lyric or a song title. The final statement, "Sing 'Dream Child' and do you hear at all?" can be read as Andrew's thoughts on the poor lyrics of a particular song.
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PostPost #18  Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
And the we'll turn round...

always wondered... does this refer to anything at all?
or is it just Von trying to be funny
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PostPost #19  Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Probably a typo that he decided to keep. Laughing
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PostPost #20  Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

kazamel wrote:
Quote:
And the we'll turn round...

always wondered... does this refer to anything at all?
or is it just Von trying to be funny


A change from a previously mutual direction?
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PostPost #21  Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I’ve always thought that the line ‘I’ve got nothing to say I ain’t said before’ to be a joke, referring to “Floodland” being a rehashing (and a bloody good one at that) of FALAA. A statement that nothing is new.
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PostPost #22  Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Dan wrote:
The sheet music has it as 'Hold the hired hand on heart', as well as quotation marks around "we'll turn round" & "hand of god", "floodland" and "driven apart" & Living on "if" and "if I tried", plus it spells toll'd as told.


"Living on if"

That has got to be a reference to Alexandre Dumas, right? Chateau d'If and all that. Betrayal and revenge.
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PostPost #23  Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

or kipling's "if":

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you
But make allowance for their doubting too,
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream--and not make dreams your master,
If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings--nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much,
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son!

nothing to do with exceedingly good cakes. Wink
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PostPost #24  Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I'll go wiff Lee's. Very Happy
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PostPost #25  Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

kazamel wrote:
Quote:
And the we'll turn round...

always wondered... does this refer to anything at all?
or is it just Von trying to be funny


He's been known to p*ss about with sentence structure and definite articles to attract attention: I think in this case he's calling someone (can't think who...) out, accusing them of continuing hostilities even after the ceasefire's been declared. "The king is dead, love is the law, and you still can't put this down, can you?"

Or it could be a reference to pistol duelling, where you start with your backs to each other, walk out, turn around and then shoot; building up to resuming hostilities himself.
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