Having listened to some very good quality recordings of a few of the most recent shows (than you for recording and sharing!), it seems to me like what has been increasingly problematic with the Sisters' live sound has become even worse – very low overall sound volume, low guitar volume, low vocals, lack of "bite" and clarity – and this is in venues where other bands consistently sound great (at an appropriate volume).
The visuals are always really good, but the sound quality and volume at SoM gigs really bring the experience down.
What could be the reason for this? Is the band unable to afford a good sound system? It just seems strange.
Sisters live sound
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sisterstekland
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Change your speaker 
Yggdrasil.
Have you been to a show yet?
It's one thing judging from recordings & videos from YT, but have you even been in the same room while they're playing this year?
Have you been to a show yet?
It's one thing judging from recordings & videos from YT, but have you even been in the same room while they're playing this year?
Not this year. But like I said, judging from the videos and audio I've heard so far, it seems like what has been problematic in the past few years (where I have seen quite a few shows, and have listened to dozens more), has become worse.Pista wrote:Yggdrasil.
Have you been to a show yet?
It's one thing judging from recordings & videos from YT, but have you even been in the same room while they're playing this year?
Even lower guitar volume, lower vocals, lower overall volume (you hear people talking over the music in almost all recordings), bad sound definition.
Are you saying that this is not a problem, and that is hasn't gotten worse?
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ruffers
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I don't know if it's because of how these things are recorded maybe? I know for sure a few tunes I recorded sounded poor
But as I sit here at my 7th show of the tour I just can't agree with what you say. I've heard them with bad sound, heck no sound, and this time round they sound good.
We'd always like louder but at the shows I saw only Stockholm was too quiet, and thats a Sweden thing.
But as I sit here at my 7th show of the tour I just can't agree with what you say. I've heard them with bad sound, heck no sound, and this time round they sound good.
We'd always like louder but at the shows I saw only Stockholm was too quiet, and thats a Sweden thing.
Chucking another log on, reversing the polarity of the neutron flow
I was listening the other day to them play Comfortably Numb in the early 1990s from a YT video. You could hear people talking over it. The last few years the sound has been generally great. I can only speak for the UK and Irish gigs but I have been happy enough.
The Chancer Corporation
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Planet Dave
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It's kind of a fair point in a way, it's certainly a fair question. They do 'sound' (ie on recordings) less and less like the ferocious beast of yesteryear, for obvious reasons (Von's 10 years older than me, and I'm old and haven't been singing for a career for the last 40 years), and being stuck as far away from live shows as it's possible to be stuck on this planet it's fair enough that all you have to go on is the recordings and an opinion will be derived from those. Irrespective of that though, in the flesh they're as crisp and bouncy this year as they've been in ages, more so possibly given the fresh vibe of new personnel.
I can only speak from the solitary gig I saw but a room full of people boinging up and down (when appropriate, and sometimes when not) speaks for itself
maybe they are s**t and we're all deluded, but a room full of deluded people having a great time remains a room full of people having a great time, and if you're amongst them you'll likely be having one too, and derive your opinion accordingly. To my ears they sound more polished and measured this year, as opposed to the wall of out-of-tune noise they've presented over the last few years, and are all the better for that. Leeds 2015 felt like a band and crowd going through the motions, this year felt like a band and crowd pushing new boundaries because they wanted to.
But don't take my word for it, maybe I'm deaf?
edit : I was listening to some bootleg or other the other day, from 85 or earlier, and someone in the crowd was bellowing to 'turn it up'. Twas ever thus, perchance?
I can only speak from the solitary gig I saw but a room full of people boinging up and down (when appropriate, and sometimes when not) speaks for itself
maybe they are s**t and we're all deluded, but a room full of deluded people having a great time remains a room full of people having a great time, and if you're amongst them you'll likely be having one too, and derive your opinion accordingly. To my ears they sound more polished and measured this year, as opposed to the wall of out-of-tune noise they've presented over the last few years, and are all the better for that. Leeds 2015 felt like a band and crowd going through the motions, this year felt like a band and crowd pushing new boundaries because they wanted to.But don't take my word for it, maybe I'm deaf?
edit : I was listening to some bootleg or other the other day, from 85 or earlier, and someone in the crowd was bellowing to 'turn it up'. Twas ever thus, perchance?
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EmmaPeelWannaBe
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This exact thing!Planet Dave wrote:I can only speak from the solitary gig I saw but a room full of people boinging up and down (when appropriate, and sometimes when not) speaks for itself
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Planet Dave
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By way of contrast, am just back from a very last-minute trip to see The Cult. Place was jam-packed, and flat as flatulence. No pit to be seen, just the odd pocket of dancing and wotnot. It was loud (although 60% of that was white noise from the ever-reliable T&C soundsystem) and seemed to have everything more or less in place to be a top rock gig, but it wasn't, just a lot of people standing around checking their watches and sticking their fingers in their ears.
As a live experience, it wasn't fit to sweep the Sisters stage after they'd exited, pursued by bear or otherwise. And by direct contrast, it's safe to say The Sisters live sound is in excellent shape
As a live experience, it wasn't fit to sweep the Sisters stage after they'd exited, pursued by bear or otherwise. And by direct contrast, it's safe to say The Sisters live sound is in excellent shape
Travel back in time ten years back, then you fund out that is low guitar siund, low vocals and so.Yggdrasil wrote:Having listened to some very good quality recordings of a few of the most recent shows (than you for recording and sharing!), it seems to me like what has been increasingly problematic with the Sisters' live sound has become even worse – very low overall sound volume, low guitar volume, low vocals, lack of "bite" and clarity – and this is in venues where other bands consistently sound great (at an appropriate volume).
This year they made HUGE improvement: sound is clear, AE "sings" (well you hear and recognize most of the words) instead of moanin' & groanin' we used to get; overall level of sound is higher, mix is clear, sharp and crispy.
Yes, volume level will not blow your titshalter like on (RIP) Motorhead or Swans, but judging, and for TSOM standards, is lot, lot better than it used to be.
I haven't seen them this year, only watched youtube clips. But the sound seems much better on these recordings. In the past I've been surprised by the lack of volume at sisters gigs though.
I sort of realised then that I was used to being up the front at bigger gigs, and by necessity if you see The Cure, say, and you're up the front, you'll be blasted out of it. Because they're playing to much bigger crowds and need more powerful sound systems.
The sisters aren't, and don't. There's also the issue that Von has said in the past that he sings quietly an the PA is pitched for that.
And a third factor is that I'd say they're protecting their ears, and hence, careers. Someone mentioned Motorhead. Can you imagine how loud you'd have to shout to have a conversation with Lemmy even in a quiet room?
I sort of realised then that I was used to being up the front at bigger gigs, and by necessity if you see The Cure, say, and you're up the front, you'll be blasted out of it. Because they're playing to much bigger crowds and need more powerful sound systems.
The sisters aren't, and don't. There's also the issue that Von has said in the past that he sings quietly an the PA is pitched for that.
And a third factor is that I'd say they're protecting their ears, and hence, careers. Someone mentioned Motorhead. Can you imagine how loud you'd have to shout to have a conversation with Lemmy even in a quiet room?
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Swinnow
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Don't think Lemmy ever knew a quiet room 
I think all gigs are quieter these days. I can't remember leaving one with my ears ringing for many a year.
Having only seen the Camden event, certainly I agree their sound is clearer and it is definitely helped by Eldritch's move from a mumble to trying to hold a tune again. A welcome return.
I think all gigs are quieter these days. I can't remember leaving one with my ears ringing for many a year.
Having only seen the Camden event, certainly I agree their sound is clearer and it is definitely helped by Eldritch's move from a mumble to trying to hold a tune again. A welcome return.
....if I have to explain, then you'll never understand....
My biggest issue with their sound isn't the volume (tho it's not great) but the guitar tone of the 2 henchmen.
Ben's current sound is a bit thin and processed for my taste but at least he's audible. The chugga chugga chugga, sticking to the root and power chords for the other guitar is a really limited. I'm guessing that's a preference cos 3 guitarists in a row have followed that pattern now.
So easy for that to disappear into the mix. The standout songs are the ones that break that pattern and find something interesting for both guitars.
Ben's current sound is a bit thin and processed for my taste but at least he's audible. The chugga chugga chugga, sticking to the root and power chords for the other guitar is a really limited. I'm guessing that's a
preference cos 3 guitarists in a row have followed that pattern now. So easy for that to disappear into the mix. The standout songs are the ones that break that pattern and find something interesting for both guitars.
Audience recordings are always going to be fairly subjective & depend on what mics are being used, where the taper's standing & so on.Yggdrasil wrote:
Even lower guitar volume, lower vocals, lower overall volume (you hear people talking over the music in almost all recordings), bad sound definition.
Are you saying that this is not a problem, and that is hasn't gotten worse?
Ultimately they will be stood in the crowd, so yes, they will pick up some audience chatter/ singing/ screaming/ clapping etc.
Personally I've never had issues with volume. In fact, the past few times I saw them on the A38, I half expected to see dead fish floating on the surface of the Danube after 90 minutes of being battered by the Doktor.
I think my only bugbear (& it's not just me) is the instances of mumbled vocals.
If you listen to FALAA from the Berlin show, Von's doing a fair impression of Vic Reeves' lounge singer from Shooting Stars.
I saw the two London shows this year.
On the first night the sound was quite poor and muffled for approx the first half of the show (although I have heard/seen worse) but from about Susanne onwards it picked up and was great.
On the second night the sound was great throughout.
There are common themes with complaints about the Sisters sound, with probably the most frequent complaints being around the vocals (volume, clarity, snarling) and lack of a bassist.
Vocal-wise it's actually quite obvious that Von, nowadays, sings at a volume that is actually far lower than his speaking voice, and the volume of everything else is turned down to match. The end result then needs to be turned back up again to make a decent volume, and that's the source and cause of the Sisters weird sonic mix.
When it works, it works well, but it's evidently quite a fragile and sensitive balance, not to mention one that works better in an actual live context but doesn't always come over great when recorded (particularly in audience recordings).
All of this is to say that one really needs to actually see them live before making comments on the sound quality, that comments on the sound quality based on recordings or YouTubes aren't necessarily helpful, and that if you are listening to a recording or a YouTube you really do need to adjust your expectations.
On the first night the sound was quite poor and muffled for approx the first half of the show (although I have heard/seen worse) but from about Susanne onwards it picked up and was great.
On the second night the sound was great throughout.
There are common themes with complaints about the Sisters sound, with probably the most frequent complaints being around the vocals (volume, clarity, snarling) and lack of a bassist.
Vocal-wise it's actually quite obvious that Von, nowadays, sings at a volume that is actually far lower than his speaking voice, and the volume of everything else is turned down to match. The end result then needs to be turned back up again to make a decent volume, and that's the source and cause of the Sisters weird sonic mix.
When it works, it works well, but it's evidently quite a fragile and sensitive balance, not to mention one that works better in an actual live context but doesn't always come over great when recorded (particularly in audience recordings).
All of this is to say that one really needs to actually see them live before making comments on the sound quality, that comments on the sound quality based on recordings or YouTubes aren't necessarily helpful, and that if you are listening to a recording or a YouTube you really do need to adjust your expectations.
If I told them once, I told them a hundred times to put 'Spinal Tap' first and 'Puppet Show' last.
My two added cents to the conversation.
I have seen Sisters many times live, some of them recorded parts or whole gigs. Whatever the quality of the recordings and the means (semipro camera or phone or pro camera) the sound in the gig was much better than any of the recordings at the same position holding the cam
Also the gigs and songs are a kind of lottery in quality from day to day. One day they play a magnificent Dominion/Mother Russia version and the next they butcher the same song in a less than 24 hours time. Also never heard them play exactly the same version of any song. If you hear for example all Marian recordings in a tour (like the last one) you will find out that they are different one way or another
I have seen Sisters many times live, some of them recorded parts or whole gigs. Whatever the quality of the recordings and the means (semipro camera or phone or pro camera) the sound in the gig was much better than any of the recordings at the same position holding the cam
Also the gigs and songs are a kind of lottery in quality from day to day. One day they play a magnificent Dominion/Mother Russia version and the next they butcher the same song in a less than 24 hours time. Also never heard them play exactly the same version of any song. If you hear for example all Marian recordings in a tour (like the last one) you will find out that they are different one way or another
'Are we the Baddies?'...
"Someday! Someday, everything you need, is just gonna fall out of the sky..." -A.E. Reading 1991
"Don't forget that most of the judges in witches trials had harvard degrees."
"Someday! Someday, everything you need, is just gonna fall out of the sky..." -A.E. Reading 1991
"Don't forget that most of the judges in witches trials had harvard degrees."
Thank you mh and everyone else chiming in on this – I'm happy to hear it's apparently less of an issue than I feared.mh wrote:I saw the two London shows this year.
On the first night the sound was quite poor and muffled for approx the first half of the show (although I have heard/seen worse) but from about Susanne onwards it picked up and was great.
On the second night the sound was great throughout.
(...)
All of this is to say that one really needs to actually see them live before making comments on the sound quality, that comments on the sound quality based on recordings or YouTubes aren't necessarily helpful, and that if you are listening to a recording or a YouTube you really do need to adjust your expectations.
Regarding judging the quality of the live sound by recordings, I still do feel that recordings from e.g. 2003, 2006 and 2008 at least to me generally sound more clear and more powerful than those from recent years, even though I remember feeling that the shows I saw back then were also on the quiet side, which wasn't the case back in 1983/84/85.
With such low voice the soundproduction hits technical limits as mentioned. The vocal level often simply depends from venue specific conditions (system, especially feedback due to monitors and speakers serving the stage and front). All affecting the overall levels. The reworked doctors (bass) sounds helped a lot. it is mainly good since few years again, quite often very good.
Only thing i do not understand about the initial post are the remarks about recordings. Some of these are more than excellent, i would even call them stellar, and that means recording AND actual sound. especially Oslo is outstanding even with iphone headphones, just a little eq. Please try other gear
Only thing i do not understand about the initial post are the remarks about recordings. Some of these are more than excellent, i would even call them stellar, and that means recording AND actual sound. especially Oslo is outstanding even with iphone headphones, just a little eq. Please try other gear
love is just a shot away
The Oslo recording, using good headphones and EQ, is actually one of the recordings which inspired the post. While an excellent recording, the band's sound seems low in volume, and lacking in clarity and energy, sounding like all the amps are low on gain. The twin guitars are so underused as to sound like just one a lot of the time. Happily Show Me sounds better than most of the rest of the show.jost 7 wrote: Only thing i do not understand about the initial post are the remarks about recordings. Some of these are more than excellent, i would even call them stellar, and that means recording AND actual sound. especially Oslo is outstanding even with iphone headphones, just a little eq. Please try other gear
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Being645
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You should have been at the Utrecht show on Sunday. The sound was loud and absolutely clear including both guitars and their different lines, at least where I was hanging around. And the entire concert was so energetic. It was a great pleasure to see it and hear the crowd respond to that also by their chorus....Yggdrasil wrote:The Oslo recording, using good headphones and EQ, is actually one of the recordings which inspired the post. While an excellent recording, the band's sound seems low in volume, and lacking in clarity and energy, sounding like all the amps are low on gain. The twin guitars are so underused as to sound like just one a lot of the time. Happily Show Me sounds better than most of the rest of the show.jost 7 wrote: Only thing i do not understand about the initial post are the remarks about recordings. Some of these are more than excellent, i would even call them stellar, and that means recording AND actual sound. especially Oslo is outstanding even with iphone headphones, just a little eq. Please try other gear
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DasPerltAber
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iesus wrote:My two added cents to the conversation.
I have seen Sisters many times live, some of them recorded parts or whole gigs. Whatever the quality of the recordings and the means (semipro camera or phone or pro camera) the sound in the gig was much better than any of the recordings at the same position holding the cam
Also the gigs and songs are a kind of lottery in quality from day to day. One day they play a magnificent Dominion/Mother Russia version and the next they butcher the same song in a less than 24 hours time. Also never heard them play exactly the same version of any song. If you hear for example all Marian recordings in a tour (like the last one) you will find out that they are different one way or another
The thing I will never quite understand about Von and co is this: how the hell can you play a song that you have been playing for nearly 30 years, reduced it to a shorter version, cut half of the lyrics….and STILL manage to f**k it up rather nicely. There are maybe 16 lines left for Von to sing in More..and he still forgets half of them. And they start with More most of the time. A mate of mine and myself have discussed for hours and hours about how, back then, we didn't have ONE single perfect live version of either Jolene of Temple Of Love...there was always a f**k up.
Nowadays they have their drums, bass, synths, some backing vocals and, possibly, some other stuff coming from their Macs....their real amps have been replaced by Kempers ( so one only has to take a usb stick with him), and you have people wondering just why the guitar sound has changed. Well..because a Kemper can reproduce the basic sound of an amp that is modelled….but not the dynamics of a real tube amp.
As for the new dude..He plays those 3 power chords pretty well and does a good job at hanging over the audience with them shades on...almost a real guitarist..Damn good at posing though! Credits for that!
I watched Pukkelpop 1992 and Arvika 1998 and Wake before watching some of the latest gigs..and damn… I really do prefer to remember the golden years..
That sounds great, glad you got to experience that! I wish I could have been there. Wrong continent unfortunately...Being645 wrote: You should have been at the Utrecht show on Sunday. The sound was loud and absolutely clear including both guitars and their different lines, at least where I was hanging around. And the entire concert was so energetic. It was a great pleasure to see it and hear the crowd respond to that also by their chorus....
He doesn't pay attention and is mutton, misses his cues and fucks the songs up.DasPerltAber wrote:iesus wrote:My two added cents to the conversation.
I have seen Sisters many times live, some of them recorded parts or whole gigs. Whatever the quality of the recordings and the means (semipro camera or phone or pro camera) the sound in the gig was much better than any of the recordings at the same position holding the cam
Also the gigs and songs are a kind of lottery in quality from day to day. One day they play a magnificent Dominion/Mother Russia version and the next they butcher the same song in a less than 24 hours time. Also never heard them play exactly the same version of any song. If you hear for example all Marian recordings in a tour (like the last one) you will find out that they are different one way or another
The thing I will never quite understand about Von and co is this: how the hell can you play a song that you have been playing for nearly 30 years, reduced it to a shorter version, cut half of the lyrics….and STILL manage to f**k it up rather nicely. There are maybe 16 lines left for Von to sing in More..and he still forgets half of them. And they start with More most of the time. A mate of mine and myself have discussed for hours and hours about how, back then, we didn't have ONE single perfect live version of either Jolene of Temple Of Love...there was always a f**k up.
Nowadays they have their drums, bass, synths, some backing vocals and, possibly, some other stuff coming from their Macs....their real amps have been replaced by Kempers ( so one only has to take a usb stick with him), and you have people wondering just why the guitar sound has changed. Well..because a Kemper can reproduce the basic sound of an amp that is modelled….but not the dynamics of a real tube amp.
As for the new dude..He plays those 3 power chords pretty well and does a good job at hanging over the audience with them shades on...almost a real guitarist..Damn good at posing though! Credits for that!
I watched Pukkelpop 1992 and Arvika 1998 and Wake before watching some of the latest gigs..and damn… I really do prefer to remember the golden years..
Maybe its time: i love the sisters as an emotional entity of love, sound and vision.
I know what to get these days with deep lows and more than great heights, and what i have got in the past.
Everybody complaining simply is stupid.
Please walk away, take your personal frustration somewhere else. (Little frustration tolerated)
I know what to get these days with deep lows and more than great heights, and what i have got in the past.
Everybody complaining simply is stupid.
Please walk away, take your personal frustration somewhere else. (Little frustration tolerated)
love is just a shot away